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Please explain breeding ability to me again
  • So, I’ve asked about this before, but I’m thinking too much and confusing myself again. I understand that each horse has an invisible breeding ability, and it was explained to me before that the “ability” is like a percentage, and the percentage represents how likely the horse’s offspring are to be superior to the parent. If this is correct, and I only keep foals that are superior to their parents, then that would mean that with each generation, the percentage gets better/higher, meaning that there’s a greater chance of getting superior foals. So, my question is if the line is becoming greater quality, why is it harder to get superior foals as generations increase? (Or maybe it isn’t? I was under the impression that that’s how it works, but I personally have only just started getting 4G foals from my lines).

    I apologize for the words and thank you! :)
    Player ID #250257, She/Her
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  • From my understanding, you are correct in your understanding of it being like a percentage. But let's say the original pair you breed together is 50%, average. So any foal of theirs would just have to be more than 60% to test as superior to either parent. So now, when you go to breed this offspring down the line, you breed to another of 60%, their foal then would need to be higher than that to test as superior. And so on. If that makes sense. This is just how I understood the superior/as good as testing to work though, if I'm wrong someone please correct me. :-)
  • Breeding Ability isn't a percentage, it's just like Showing Aptitude, in that it's a fixed number that you can only generally get an idea of. (Yellow/C papers are given to one range of breeding ability scores, Red/B to the next step up, Blue/A to the next step above that, Gold/Star to the step above that.)

    When you breed two horses together, their Breeding Ability scores are used to determine the quality of the resulting foal. There's a range of scores that could be produced based on their BA. If it's anything like Showing Aptitude, then it can be a pretty hefty chunk lower than the sire or dam's score. This is based on an experiment I ran a few RL years ago, where I bred a WHOLE BUNCH of foundation horses together, and decided that perfect foundation pairs will produce foals with PT scores of 8.9 and 10.4 reliably. Perfect foundations are 9.9 PT, so they probably have 9.9 BA, as well. (I think Ammit ran a similar one, based on several different combinations of horses in pastures.)

    Breeding Advice compares a foal's breeding ability to both parents' scores, which is why if you have a regular foundation mare and you breed her to a star, you're pretty much guaranteed to have the foal altered automatically.

    Technically, if you're doing everything you can to ensure the quality of the next generation, there shouldn't be much difficulty in getting better foals. But the chance of getting them doesn't increase, in theory it stays exactly the same. However, until very recently we didn't have Mare Comparison, so KNOWING your mares are superior breeders to their dams was really hard to verify. It got increasingly more difficult at higher generations because there was 'mare lag' - the overall ability of mare breeding ability lagged behind stallion ability because you could guarantee the colt was superior, whereas mares... well, it was a numbers game.

    When Mare Comparison came out it decimated my higher generation project, but I'd pretty much expected that because my PT scores had plateaued, meaning the mares had not, overall, gotten better in relation to the stallions.

    Clear as mud?
  • Here is a link to an older post that explains it, too. https://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/35511/showing-vs-breeding#Item_1
    image

    ConfluenceStable- HJ1 ID#235298 * ConfluenceFarms- HJ2 ID#1998 * ConfluenceRanch- HJ3 ID#15
  • This is a post that a player made back in 2007...

    Oh hey, I wrote that. XD The bottom part is still incorrect since it says the only way to tell how good a breeder is is to breed them; this was before comparison testing. But the basic principle otherwise remains the same. I guess if it hasn't been disproven in a decade...
  • I didnt think the showing ability was hidden, I thought thats what the PT was? And the PT is determined from the parents breeding ability, not their showing ability. I think you meant that anyway, it just read like it was different

    image

    Breeding quality coloured sport ponies and cobs
    Hajinc - 145082
    HJ2 - 145
  • .Peering closely at Stone Silo Farm. LookingGlass?
    Post edited by ConfluenceStable at 2019-12-16 07:43:05
    image

    ConfluenceStable- HJ1 ID#235298 * ConfluenceFarms- HJ2 ID#1998 * ConfluenceRanch- HJ3 ID#15
  • The one and only!

    Kintara, PT is not a direct reflection of showing ability, specifically, but it's very close. (It's influenced by consistency so it can be a lot lower than the actual showing ability score.)
  • So the parents' breeding ability generates both numbers, the foal's breeding ability & its showing ability.

    And a horse's PT is a description of its showing ability + consistency. Does that mean that a perfectly consistent horse's PT exactly corresponds to its showing ability?

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