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chesapeake farm · Sep 3, 2017 7:57 PM

I have not used GMTs very much, but I decided to try some color changes. On multiple horses, I have gotten the message "there are no edits available for this gene" when I try to change E to e or A to a. I'm trying to decrease my bays and get more chestnuts and blacks. Is there a reason for this? One horse would have gone buckskin to palomino, and another would have gone bay dun to grullo.

Kat8805 · Sep 3, 2017 8:31 PM

Links to the horses in question are always helpful :)

chesapeake farm · Sep 3, 2017 9:16 PM

http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=5624502
http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=5377415
http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=5642866
Here are a few.

SandyCreekAcres · Sep 3, 2017 9:18 PM

If you are trying to GMT lined horses, you can only give them genes that their parents have that they didn't get. The gene from the sire comes first and the gene from the dam comes second.

For instance, if you have a horse that is eE Aa, you will see this format in the lab:

Black
One or 2 large E's will make black based horses
while 2 small e's will make red based horses.
E costs 1 token
e costs 1 token

on the right of that will be a button marked e for the sire's contribution and one marked E for the dam's contribution.

If the sire was eE, you could change the recessive red e to dominant E and make it's base coat black. However, if the sire was ee, then you would be unable to give the foal a dominant E extension for the sire's contribution, since the sire would have no E to pass on, and you would see the message "no edits available".

In the same way, if the dam is Ee, then you could change could change the dominant E to e to give the foal a red base coat, but if the dam is EE, then you cannot give the foal a recessive e because the dam has no recessive e to pass on.

The same thing will hold true for the agouti gene. If a parent is homozygous for either AA or aa, then you will not be able to change the agouti gene for that parent to the opposite allele.

SandyCreekAcres · Sep 3, 2017 10:06 PM

First example
CF Twin Melody:
Amber Cream Champagne Roan Tobiano
eE aA CcrC dD gg fF SstySsty pp chCh KitrKitto WF: Light

Sire CF Twin Technique
Amber Cream Champagne Roan
Ee Aa CcrC dd gg Ff SstyS Pp chCh KitrKitr WF: Large

Dam CF Slow Melody
Amber Champagne Dun Splash Tobiano
EE aA CC Dd gg fF SstySsty pp chCh KitKitto SpsSp WF: Medium

You can make Twin Melody a Classic Champagne by changing the e allele from her sire to E and the A allele from her dam to a, but you cannot make her a Gold Cream Champagne because her dam doesn't carry the recessive e allele.

You can change the Ccr from her sire to C to remove the cream and the Ch from her dam to ch to remove the champagne. That would make her Grullo

Second example
CF Pamplona
Buckskin Dun
EE aA CCcr dD gg FF SstySsty PP WF: Extensive

Sire CF Taurus
Bay
EE Aa CC dd gg fF SstySsty PP WF: Large

Dam CF Mexican Lasso
Buckskin Dun
EE AA CcrC Dd gg FF SSsty PP WF: Extensive

You cannot make Pamplona into a palomino dun because her dam is homozygous dominant Agouti so you cannot give her a recessive a on her dam's side to match the recessive a on the sire's and both parents are homozygous dominant extension so you can't change her EE at all.

Third example
CF Skye Colors
Classic Champagne Splash Appaloosa
Ee aa CC dd gg Ff SstySsty PP Chch SpSps LlpL ECA3P+ECA3P+ WF: Light

Sire
CF Neon Colors
Classic Cream Champagne Appaloosa
EE aa CCcr dd gg Ff SstySsty PP chCh LlpLlp ECA3P+ECA3PPATN1 WF: Light

Dam
CF TellA Skye
Bay Dun Splash Tobiano
Ee aA CC dD gg ff SstySsty PP KittoKit SpsSps WF: Minimal

Skye Colors is heterozygous black. If you want to make her homozyogus black, you can change the e she got from her dam to E. You can change the Champagne she got from her sire from Ch to ch, if you want her to be just Black Splash Appaloosa.

Kat8805 · Sep 4, 2017 8:14 AM

Yes, as SandyCreekAcres has said, with lined horses, you are limited to the genes they have available to them from their parents. This is a genetics game after all, and genes are inherited. If you want free range on a horse's genes, you will need to begin with a foundation horse and work your way up from there. You could selectively breed out the genes you wish to avoid in your current herd, and with time and patience, you will get the horses you are hoping for with out the GMTs.

chesapeake farm · Sep 4, 2017 1:38 PM

Thanks guys, that makes complete sense. I didn't realize that GMTs were all based on the possible combinations and not just paying to change a gene.

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